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Send PMCheektowaga, NY - USA
Joined: 11/5/2014
Posts: 127
Vette(s): 1978 Silver anniversary edition.
I certainly found discrepencies in the manual as I went thru it for the chapter top-flight...one being the bag that the wheel locks and tool come in...the manual says it is a BLUE bag , part no. etc etc etc...well mine is an ORANGE bag and not the part number quoted in the book......but I opened the bag for the first time to verify the contents for judging...so no deduction...but they noted the dicrepancy on the judges tabulation sheets. I also don't agree with the deduction for the tires and battery.....I can not possibly have a 25 yr old Delco Freedom battery nor does anyone make a repro. same with the 16 in goodyear eagles that came stock on the car.....nor for safety reasons would I buy someone's used tires....in fact goodyear no longer even makes a 16" "Z" rated radial for my car even if I wanted to just get partial points for manufacturer....UGH!....not complaining, I scored pretty well.....just venting!
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pski88 said: .I can not possibly have a 25 yr old Delco Freedom battery nor does anyone make a repro. s
All Corvettes Judged in NCRS are subject to the same Standard Deductions. For a C4, 10 points for a current replacement Delco. Virtually all C4's receive this deduction.
Your's will too.
|UPDATED|6/11/2012 5:01:25 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
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Art said: There are some mistakes in the judging manual that have not been corrected as yet.
The revised 84-86 Judging Refrence Manual will be available this Fall.
|UPDATED|6/11/2012 5:03:05 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
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Send PMModerator
Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 22714
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/
Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight"
#2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto
Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
NCRS Judging Reference manuals should be considered "Living" documents...they will change over time, as more original cars are presented for judging. The Judging guides should never be considered the final word...they never are. What a judging team may find questionable on a car, and noted on the judging sheets, will be used to further develop the judging guides.

Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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Send PMCheektowaga, NY - USA
Joined: 11/5/2014
Posts: 127
Vette(s): 1978 Silver anniversary edition.
"I have judged three C4's that were presented with their original battery, by the cars' original owners that had had the foresight to retain the original battery. An 86, and a 90 and 95 ZR-1. The "batteries" started the car, and survived the rigors of the Ops check. These batteries were gutted from the bottom of the case, extension cables attached to the terminals from the inside, and an Odyssey PS680 then set inside the gutted case and installed normally. Very nice presentation on spectacular original cars, with no deductions for the battery"...
so I don't see how this is a Delco Freedom battery, I view this as a form of "cheating" or deception.....the car either has a Delco Freedom battery or it doesn't....
I don't see the cleverness in this nearly as well as I see deceit....and trouble is many cars are now passed off as NOM cars and they are not because people do things like that....I WILL NOT give credit to someone who may happen on a "case" for a Freedom battery and hollows it out to fit over a different battery just for the look....in my opinion it is still cheating....is the car THAT close to not passing that someone needs to resort to this? I have also heard of people "renting" parts...namely correct wheels and tires....I just feel that is NOT the spirit for which the NCRS was established.....kind of cheapens the whole process for those abiding by the rules so to speak....just my two cents...
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Here's the NCRS Judging Standard. Note the word in bold:
"Cars are to be judged to the standard of vehicle appearance, and as equipped at the time and point of final assembly by the Chevrolet Division of General Motors Incorporation. Presentation for judging is to be in the condition normally associated with that of a Corvette which has undergone the then-current standard Chevrolet New Dealer Car Preparation for delivery to a purchaser, exclusive of any dealer or purchaser inspired additions, deletions, or changes".
Good luck with your car.
|UPDATED|6/11/2012 5:04:07 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
"Cars are to be judged to the standard of vehicle appearance, and as equipped at the time and point of final assembly by the Chevrolet Division of General Motors Incorporation. Presentation for judging is to be in the condition normally associated with that of a Corvette which has undergone the then-current standard Chevrolet New Dealer Car Preparation for delivery to a purchaser, exclusive of any dealer or purchaser inspired additions, deletions, or changes".
Good luck with your car.
|UPDATED|6/11/2012 5:04:07 PM (AZT)|/UPDATED|
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Send PMCheektowaga, NY - USA
Joined: 11/5/2014
Posts: 127
Vette(s): 1978 Silver anniversary edition.
then I guess we will disagree in the interpretation of the judging manual...I truly don't appreciate the inference from you that I just got into this or fell off the turnip truck......your snide remarks are not called for nor did I personally attack you...I just commented that to ME it seems deceitful to make something that is a mis-representation.Congratulations on all your achievements in the NCRS you seem to want to make sure I understand them
FYI I HAVE studied the judges manual and have consulted with no less than three master judges just as yourself...and the opinion on the afore mentioned matter varies greatly....it will be VERY interesting to see what the revised or second edition judging manual will clarify.....again JUST MY OPINION
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 22714
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/
Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight"
#2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto
Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
Folks, let's not turn this into a big peeing match over who's interpretation of the NCRS standard is "correct", or start taking digs at each other. We can have differing opinions without disrespecting one another....we are, I assume, all mature adults, no? Let's play nice, and enjoy the forums. 
And, just as a polite reminder:
C4 Vette Registry Forum Rules:
1) To be free of ridicule and harassment.

And, just as a polite reminder:
C4 Vette Registry Forum Rules:
1) To be free of ridicule and harassment.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you don't agree with someone on a topic, that does not give you the right to ridicule or (especially) harass that person. You are more than welcome to disagree with someone, but express your opinion in a way that is not offensive to the other person.
Joel Adams
C3VR Lifetime Member #56
My Link
(click for Texas-sized view!) NCRS
"Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comforting to cry in a CORVETTE than in a Kia"
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Send PMspring hill, FL - USA
Joined: 5/18/2002
Posts: 92
Vette(s): 92 coupe, full minor custom, in & out
Accordinly, I disagree with everyone.
There are waxers,
Tralier queen owners,
Racers,
Modifiers,
Don't care about nothingers
and we'ens.
I drive them till they fall apart, with little or no trouble.
I had a show car once.
More work than fun.
Had a race car once.
More work than fun.
Had many new vettes.
Beat them to near death and they asked for more.
I, along with many others here, don't care what YOU think about any person in particular.
We are tied together in a love affair with a chunk of plastic.
Whom ever and what ever, turns your clock, so be it.
I washed my car last time it rained and it has a new battery.
And, the gas in the tank, is yesterdays.
Do I qualify for NCRS? Not hardly.
Do I care if YOU, like me or my car?
Not one damn bit.
Also, I am a street racer. (Bad boy) An OLD street racer.
So, lets see the big boys toys in action.
Pictures of the shows, races, waxings, washings, hot babes on the roofs or hoods.
That's what this place is for. Friendship in harmony.
To discuss your vette non problems or problems. Not a pissi9ng contest!
michael Black Sheep Squadron |URL|http://www.rogerscorvette.com/free/lintini.htm|/URL| |URL|http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/blackvette|/URL|
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Vette Registry Founder
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Send PMVette Registry Founder
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Eagleville, PA - USA
Joined: 11/1/2001
Posts: 27308
Vette(s): Used to own a 1979 Corvette now owned by JB79
Let's do please keep this thread under control.
Stick to facts and figures. Stuff you know to be true and stuff that you have seen with your own eyes.
You can say want you think things "should be" or the way you'd like to see things, but if your view of the way things "should be" or the way you'd like to see them differs from others, then state your own view without knocking the other's view.
Thanks!
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