weird steering wheel centering issue and trans question
Forum: C3 Engines, Driveline and Handling
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Send PMHot Springs, AR - USA
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3244
Vette(s): 69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans
working on this stock 81 I pulled out of a barn nearly 10 years ago. hasnt been on the road in 30 years.
my 69 has rack and pinion and a stick so im a little rusty on the old steering and an auto...
it got wrecked at some point and rolled into a barn and had all the parts to get it back in shape in the car...
the alignment was messed up pretty hard... seemingly from the wreck... tie rods were rusted all to hell and the steering wheel seemed way off center.
so I pulled the tie rods and centered the power steering and the steering wheel was way off. so i pulled the pitman arm to see if it had jumped splines and it had not.
the bottom spoke which should be at 6 o'clock is centered at 2:30 with about 3.5 turns lock to lock.
how do I get this thing to get back to center. (there is no pitman connected right now, just trying to center the wheel to the steering box.
the steering joint doesnt look like it jumped splines either. What the hell?
next question...
i got it started and it into gear at one point and it appears to have basic forward and reverse.
is there a flush I can use for the th350? what is the recommended procedure for cleaning it out after sitting 30 years.
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Duncanville, TX - USA
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Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/
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Ben, my guess would be the the steering wheel is not aligned on the steering shaft. That would be the first thing I would look at, as far as the wheel being off from center. There should be alignment marks on both the wheel hub, and the steering shaft it fits onto. It's also possible the splines on the steerign wheel hub have stripped, and allowed the wheel to be off centered. I've seen that a few times.
As far as "flushing" the trans, I don't recommend it. I would first verify the trans operates properly, then drop the pan and see if there is any indication of an issue. A little sludge/varnish, and a small amount of metal is normal. Thick pile of gunk under the filter, or chunks of metal mean something more sinister. If it looks good, just change the filter and add new fluid(DexIII).
Joel Adams
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Send PMHot Springs, AR - USA
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3244
Vette(s): 69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans
just to clarify, you are suggesting I remove the steering wheel cover and check for those marks?
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Duncanville, TX - USA
Joined: 11/8/2003
Posts: 22737
Vette(s): #1-1974 L-48 4spd Cp Med Red Metallic/Black deluxe int w/AC/tilt/tele./p/w-p/b/
Am-Fm/map light National/Regional/Chapter NCRS "Top Flight"
#2-1985 Bright Red/Carmine Cp.L-98/auto
Member: NCRS, NCRS Texas, Corvette Legends of Texas
The horn button, yes.
Joel Adams
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g
Keep in mind, who knows who has worked on the car over the years. The steering box is often overlooked or incorrectly adjusted. This results in sloppy steering and if someone replaced the box or even "rebuilt" it then who knows.
The box center is not the important spec and most of the time the center is not the correct position when the car is driving straight. The center is what is taught when doing an alignment but these boxes, all of them from 1963-82, were setup for high lash not necessarily center. I custom build these every day and always dial them in at the high lash and confirm the arm position is correct.
One of the reasons people swap them out for the Jeep box is they think or were told the steering is 60 years old and was sloppy from day one, it was not. The other reasons for the Jeep box are the removal of the control valve and old hoses, faster ratio, and recommendations. However, a correctly built stock box has no play in it driving straight down the road.
There is a D-Flat ground into the input of the box spline. It most likely is at the high lash and it should be at 12 o'clock driving striaght down the road. You bring the box to that point and adjust to it, not to center and adjust it.
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Send PMHot Springs, AR - USA
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 3244
Vette(s): 69 Conv #'s match 427, TKO-600/.64, 3.36HD-Posi, HT, T/T, PS, PB, PW, SP, Leather, Comp XE264HR & Roller Rockers & Lifters, Air-Gap RPM intake, Holley St Av 770 VS, MSD 6AL+Dist+Blaster SS, K&N, Jet-Hot Hooker Side-Pipes, Steeroids, Al Rad, Spal Fans
im not sure what you are advising me to do here.
the steering wheel is 150 degrees off of center at the center of the steering range. that is way off.
i plan to pull the horn button and check the marks as adam suggested... assuming the marks are aligned what would be the next move?
pull the steering joint, setting the flat spot on the steering box to the top, then aligning the steering wheel to center and reinstalling the joint?
or if there is another process, please let me know
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Send PMLoir en Vallee SARTHE, France
Joined: 8/21/2002
Posts: 160
Vette(s): 1978 L48 Auto. Red with Oyster Leather interior. Owned since 1990.
Gary (gtr19990) is the expert here I think, but my thoughts would be to firstly check the flat on the steering box input shaft. There is no need to pull the steering joint to do that, but it might be hard to see if there is a lot of crud on the box etc. Once that is at the 12.0 clock position (ie on the top of the shaft, the wheel should be in the correct position. But, you'll then have to re-connect the Pitman arm in the right orientation, and I confess I don't know how you do that part!
The steering wheel on our '78 had been slightly "off' for some years. I did consider moving it on the shaft, but decided that was a bit of a naff route! So, I got the flat spot right and re-did the wheel alignment with the box in that position. Low and behold, the wheel is now in the right position when driving straight.
If you do decide to remove the trans pan, DO pump out any fluid before you unbolt it - the mess if you don't will be ghastly! I use a small hand pump to get as much fluid out as possible before loosening pan bolts. There is a specific process to re-install the pan to ensure that the gasket will not leak. I have a "soft" copy here, but not sure if I can upload it to the forum. Let me know if you'd like it and I'll investigate!
Stephen J Irons
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g
These boxes perform great if they are in good condition, correctly setup, and not worn out.
In order to know where your box is dialed in, the only way is to check it, out of the car, with a 0-30 in/lb dial TW. Those tools are not cheap if you don't have access to one.
What you can do is confirm where the D-Flat on the box input is when the wheels are straight. The Flat is ground in on high lash most of the time, not center. The correct position is at 12 o'clock in the straight-ahead position. Regardless of where the steering wheel is since it might have been indexed on the column in the past.
If the box is worn out, it will have play at the high lash point, if it is still good it won't. Many adjust the box incorrectly to compensate for worn out gears, boxes off high lash, or just thinking they are doing a good thing. That can wreck the gears if done incorrectly.
If the steering wheel is off with the Flat at 12, you have to adjust the tie rods equally to center the steering wheel without changing the toe.
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